Worms Clan Wars

For Boggy B and his mates. If they existed, of course.

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Obn3g0n
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Re: Worms Clan Wars

Post by Obn3g0n » Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:50 am

Bloopy wrote:There's other games and things to experience and care about in life.
That's true. Most people aren't as personally offended by Team17's actions as I have become. It's partly my fault for taking their promises too literally.
Worm Mad wrote:All I said was that calling someone a 'complete idiot' is out of line, which it is. If you've got a problem with that, I can show you the door.
Ok, let me know if I need to revise anything in my previous post. I'd prefer to stay here if possible. I've tried to keep it more level-headed, at least with the personal attacks to other forum members. But maybe my opinions simply aren't welcome on a Team17 fan site.

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Re: Worms Clan Wars

Post by Squirminator2k » Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:27 am

We don't have any problems with people having opinions. Indeed, as the founder of this site I'm quite dour on Team17 these days myself. What we do object to, though, is needless name-calling. All we ask is that you refrain from calling other people names. If you can do that, you'll get along just fine here :)
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Re: Worms Clan Wars

Post by SupSuper » Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:50 am

Obn3g0n wrote:Jeez, I wasn't even really bashing the game. More like bashing Team17, which is completely justifiable. Anyone who doesn't at least share my skepticism has the wool over their eyes. It's the people who always blindly compliment Team17, and the casual players who eat everything up, who are responsible for the constant decline in the series, for not holding the creators up to a higher standard. I don't want Team17 to think they can sneak another one by us. Every time they introduce an upcoming game, with their trademark hype, and then it turns out to be total crap, it insults our intelligence. Provided you have some intelligence to insult. I want others to share my outrage, and to join together, with a collective voice louder than the aforementioned casual players and blind complimenters.
To clarify, you are free to argue and bash on the games, Team17, or whatever, though your statements better be well-founded for a pre-release game. However, you are not free to start bashing or insulting each other over it. That kind of attitude might've flied in the Team17 Forum but it's gone now and so is that behavior. If you think being adult is "forgetting your friends, calling people idiots and questioning their intelligence" you got another thing coming. This is the internet, not a democracy, and we are more than happy to rule with an iron fist if we have to.

Anyways I'm not gonna get into this whole argument in detail because I've seen it time and time again, and it basically comes down to "Team17 isn't making the game for you", like every other before. I'm not saying that's good or bad, just a fact. In fact Team17 probably has never made games for you, since the only thing specifically tailored for you, the beta patch, wasn't made by them. So I don't see why you see them in such a high position given you don't even like them, it really confuses me. Oh and it's literally impossible for the "WA rope" to return unless they reuse the WA engine, so don't even bother getting your hopes up for that.

A lot of features people see with disdain have actually been requested by the community at large. The matchmaking, the worm customizations, the silly soundbanks, yes even the silly hat DLCs and the memes. All this league and clan stuff they're pulling out now, it's not for the WA veterans, it was requested by and large by people on the forums, on Facebook, on beta tests, since the Reloaded days and probably even earlier, from all the "casuals" that actually take the online rankings in the new games very seriously and competitively. So I don't get where all these baseless accusations that they don't listen to feedback and whatever come from. Sure, they might not listen to you, but that's a whole different argument.
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Re: Worms Clan Wars

Post by Squirminator2k » Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:54 am

I'm still offended that they didn't take my weapon idea. It's a great weapon idea, and it'd be totally awesome and almost definitely wouldn't break the game. But they've opted not to put it in the game, so I'm probably offended.
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Re: Worms Clan Wars

Post by hoppi » Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:25 pm

This Rezzed interview with Bethany shows some gameplay, also the weapon panel, which seems to have improved a lot from Revolution:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keESXqJd-RE

It still has the Rev's crappy physics engine, so I'm not excited.

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Re: Worms Clan Wars

Post by _Kilburn » Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:33 pm

Image

Aww, all the weapons are visible, that kinda ruins the surprise. :(
I find it a bit surprising that I can recognize almost all the weapons there, shows that 65 weapons isn't that much in the end, especially since WA has a bunch of weapons which are essentially overpowered clones of other weapons. I'm a bit disappointed that they kept Telekinesis and the UFO too, the former was bloody useless and the latter seemed way too convenient, I thought their winged monkey would have replaced both of them.

Anyway, here's all the weapons I can identify, from left to right and from top to bottom:

Code: Select all

Jetpack
Telekinesis
UFO
???
Gravedigger

Bazooka
Homing Missile
Mega Mortar
Sentry Gun
Knock Out

Grenade
Cluster Bomb
Petrol Bomb
Whoopsie Cushion
Water Balloon

Shotgun
Uzi
Flamethrower
Poison Gun
Water Pistol

Fire Punch
Dragon Ball
Kamikaze
Equalizer (what the hell is it doing there?)
Prod

Dynamite
Mine
Sheep
Super Sheep
Mole

Air Strike
Napalm Strike
Bunker Buster
Crate Strike
Water Strike

Blowtorch
Pneumatic Drill
Girder
Baseball Bat
Wrench

Ninja Rope
Teleport Raygun
Parachute
Teleport
Aquapack

Banana Bomb
Holy Hand Grenade
Lightning Strike
Boggy B
Buffalo of Lies

Skunk
Electromagnet
Plug Hole
Oxygen
???

Bovine Blitz
Winged Monkey (not sure, but I can't see it anywhere else and its position would make sense)
Concrete Donkey
Worm Charm
Armageddon

Skip Go
Surrender
Worm Select
Teleswap
Teleshield
So that's basically all the weapons from Revolution, minus that weapon stealing utility (forgot its name), plus all the new weapons they announced and two mystery weapons/utilities I can't identify.
Last edited by _Kilburn on Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Worms Clan Wars

Post by Thurbo » Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:06 pm

Obn3g0n wrote:No, not at all. Many, many innocuous posts by many people just trying to help got deleted, both on the Team17 forum and on Steam. Why do you think that just about every thread on the Steam forum right now is positive about the game? It's not because the game is good.
The negative threads are still there. I don't really remember any negative threads with either unreasonable complaints and massive cursing or just massive cursing though and when they finally decide to take action on offensive users, surely you can't blame them? Also, what makes you say the game "isn't good"? You just said it, so how do you back that statement?

Obn3g0n wrote:In revolution, am I mistaken to say that, for example, a small hole in the landscape can be invisible when the camera is zoomed out? Or that certain small ledges you might want to jump onto may disappear?
Yes, unless there are any hidden automatic graphical adjustments to users with weaker PCs I'm unaware of, you are mistaken.

Obn3g0n wrote:My suggestions, in light of the critical failure that was Revolution and Reloaded, and in light of the fact that I'm a long-time WA player, should be valued.
Amusing.
On an important side note that I believe you are actually unaware of, Worms Reloaded and Revolution were both critically acclaimed and commercial successes. You really need to explain the basis on which you value your opinions over others - because you are a "long-time W:A player" and you "don't like the physics and everything else" simply isn't enough.

Obn3g0n wrote:The only reason any worms developer should be defensive is if it's true that they don't give a damn, and are just trying to half-ass and get their paycheck. And if that is the case, why would any of you defend them and not join me in telling them to go F themselves?
Because you don't go anywhere and tell people to "F themselves". You don't do that, ever. Listen to me, you DON'T. Nope, nada, not at all, no way, no.

Obn3g0n wrote:"Revolution wasn't THAT imprecise, and you don't need precision anyway".
Indeed, first I said it's possible to learn to do precise shots in Revolution and then I said you don't need precision, that makes sense.

Obn3g0n wrote:My point is that if Worms Clan Wars was an actual attempt to do it right, we would have known that many months ago. This is just their most inexpensive/half-assed way to try to get WA fans to shut up. They want to be able to tell WA fans "we tried taking your suggestions and making a more customizable game with stronger netplay features, etc, and it still failed. The public wants Facebook games! We told you so, now shut up."
This is how companies work, right? They create games just to taunt their customers! Obn3g0n knew it all along. All the conspiracy theories? Pure truth.

Obn3g0n wrote:Actually I remember this discussion and how you failed to persuade anyone of your point of view on the matter, since you have willfully ignored all competitive aspects of WA and seem to think (from your statements) Worms should just be a silly casual game with no precision consisting of "lol exploding cows jaja xDDDD". I'm pretty sure this is your actual opinion on the matter, so don't take this as an insult. I'm just trying to make a point.
Yeah, lel explo cows jaja* ecks dee. *whatever jaja is supposed to mean, Spanish isn't my native language.
Any game has competitive aspects. Even single-player games, through speedruns for instance. That doesn't necessarily mean any game with competitive aspects actually perfectly fits competitive play. Because of the sheer amount of unpredictable events and the first turn and first weapon unlock advantage (which persists even with teleport-in turned on) Worms is far from being a competitive game. That doesn't mean you shouldn't play it competitively, everyone is free to do what they want with their game. I can hardly take anyone serious claiming Worms is a more competitive game than Starcraft however, I'm sincerely sorry. Everyone I know from our Starcraft communities laughed their behinds off as I quoted NAiL's post to them.

As much as I appreciate your random accusations (no I don't lulz), my opinion has evolved from being a long-time Worms player myself and Worms Armageddon and World Party were definitely my most played online Worms games. No matter how much it means to you, I also played Worms Open Warfare 2 DS a lot, a game very close to W:A's mechanics and physics with slight adjustments. Basically, I played the game for 2 years online and eventually top-scored (and still top-score) on all the leaderboards the game offers, including the rope race ones. As I said, decide for yourself how much that really means, there were a lot of not-so-good players that mostly lost because they couldn't handle the rope, but it still wasn't that easy. For one, you lose a lot of points for actually losing and when the player on the other end quits (that's really unfair!) and secondly, the points you earn for winning depend on your opponents' own score. This boils down to the fact I hardly lost any match, my rate of success being around 95% I presume. I usually really moaned about other players being luckier than me - better positions, crate drops, a random decision of the physics engine to make the worm I just blasted away to land on a mine in an angle that would make him land on one of my worms, both dropping onto another mine. Taking Worms competitively? Not so much fun to me. Playing with friends? Really fun! We also definitely enjoyed some of the fan mods in Armageddon (but frankly, a lot of them are awfully executed or plain boring) and the recent games are more than suitable for having tons of fun with friends. So yeah, "lul exploding caos" is true to an extent.

You also seem to assume I only praise Team17 and keep telling them how amazing they are or something along those lines, but that's not the case. I actually think my own complaint thread following the release of Worms Reloaded was one of the first on the forums, and I personally believe it was as justifiable as possible. Despite of our - often hard - work as beta testers ironing out bugs they were either incapable of fixing or they simply ignored them and finally released the game in a horribly buggy and near unacceptable state. However, when I oppose other complaints, it's either because I can't stand someone's aggressive/offensive behaviour or their points are simply downright unjustifiable.
Obn3g0n wrote:We're all adults on this forum. This is the internet. Stop trying to protect everyone's delicate feelings, forget who your friends are on this forum, and let's discuss this game properly.
Suddenly, everyone using this forum is automatically an adult. Let's properly discuss this game by insulting people and tell the developers to F off.

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Re: Worms Clan Wars

Post by SupSuper » Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:22 pm

_Kilburn wrote:So that's basically all the weapons from Revolution, minus the Skunk and that weapon stealing utility (forgot its name), plus all the new weapons they announced, two mystery weapons/utilities I can't identify, and either the old Mortar from WA or another mystery weapon.
I seem to remember they announced a new Mortar weapon. Also interesting to see they went back to the old weapon panel style, although it looks tiny in contrast with the other HUD elements.

Edit: Apparently the rope is staying the way it is, and the Teleport Gun is the answer to people who missed the old-style rope? Wonder how that's gonna work out...
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Re: Worms Clan Wars

Post by _Kilburn » Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:12 pm

Thurbo wrote:...
Oh just stop it already.
SupSuper wrote:
_Kilburn wrote:So that's basically all the weapons from Revolution, minus the Skunk and that weapon stealing utility (forgot its name), plus all the new weapons they announced, two mystery weapons/utilities I can't identify, and either the old Mortar from WA or another mystery weapon.
I seem to remember they announced a new Mortar weapon. Also interesting to see they went back to the old weapon panel style, although it looks tiny in contrast with the other HUD elements.

Edit: Apparently the rope is staying the way it is, and the Teleport Gun is the answer to people who missed the old-style rope? Wonder how that's gonna work out...
Okay, I actually watched the entire video now, turns out that weapon next to the Homing Missile is the Mega Mortar, and is basically a powerful mortar with three shots. Disappointing. From the concept art, I really expected it to be an object that you'd place like a Sentry Gun which automatically shoots mortar shells at a given angle every turn, at least that would have made it a powerful weapon for area control.

The "wrench" thing next to the Electromagnet is actually the Skunk, it really looked like a wrench on a weird black background from far away, heh. :P

The spherical thing next to the Plug Hole seems to be indeed Oxygen. I feel like this one's going to be a boring situational tool as well, probably something that lets your worm breathe underwater.

I guess there's still the weird item right next to it, but I still can't figure out what it's supposed to be. Kinda looks like a tidal wave to me. Also, the big bulky thing on the first row which I initially believed to be the Mega Mortar. It really looks like some kind of artillery cannon.

I updated my previous post accordingly, but I'm a bit disappointed after watching this interview. I just can't imagine how an utility named "teleport gun" can possibly compete with the versatility of the WA rope. I guess we'll have to wait and see... Also the physics don't seem to be any different, worms still stick to the landscape when using the Jetpack, and I really like the part where the player uses the UFO to drop a physics object right onto two enemy worms, who casually shrugged it off without taking any damage.

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Post by Thurbo » Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:05 pm

Yeah, oxygen makes you resistant against water damage. Poison still doesn't spread either, according to the gameplay video, which makes its use fairly limited on the granny or the skunk. Fire probably doesn't push Worms either, but that's just an assumption.

According to http://www.strategyinformer.com/news/23 ... rt-instead, speechbanks can also be uploaded to the Workshop.
_Kilburn wrote:Oh just stop it already.
Honestly, wouldn't mind being called an idiot that much, but Obn3g0n is definitely the least person on Earth I'd let get away with that. This aggressiveness, hooooly something.

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Re: Worms Clan Wars

Post by Akuryou13 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:51 am

My main concern, beyond any new weaponry or lack-there-of, is the controls. I played Revolution for all of 10-15 minutes, it felt like sludge, and I stopped. Worms controls need to feel tight, refined. Sloppiness just kills the experience. I eagerly await a gameplay demo or something to see if this one's worth my money.

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Re: Worms Clan Wars

Post by Worm Mad » Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:05 pm

http://www.strategyinformer.com/pc/worm ... um=twitter - Some interesting stuff here.
Gavin Hood: Yeah, so to give players some replacement for the Rope we’ve added a Teleport Gun [alongside the new physics-based Ninja Rope]. When you fire it wherever it hits the worm will teleport to that location. If not on the ground the worm will start to fall, and while falling you can aim anywhere else, fire it again and teleport there. You can keep doing that for as long as you stay in the air, so effectively you can teleport around the entire level as long as you don’t touch the floor. There’s a high level of skill involved in pulling that off.
I wasn't exactly sure how the Teleport Gun was going to work but this sounds really fun. Then again I'm a sucker for silly concepts.
Strategy Informer: Have you expanded the amount of worms you can have in a team?

Gavin Hood: We’ve got four teams and you can have up to eight worms on a team.
Huzzah! :D
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Re: Worms Clan Wars

Post by Akuryou13 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:53 pm

Worm Mad wrote:I wasn't exactly sure how the Teleport Gun was going to work but this sounds really fun. Then again I'm a sucker for silly concepts.
Alright, I'm down. That sounds phenomenal!


Also good to see 8 worms on a team again, finally.

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Re: Worms Clan Wars

Post by StepS » Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:10 pm

Akuryou13 wrote:Also good to see 8 worms on a team again, finally.
well they already had an optimization patch for Revolution where they also introduced 8 worms per team.

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Re: Worms Clan Wars

Post by Star and Moon » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:01 am

StepS wrote:
Akuryou13 wrote:Also good to see 8 worms on a team again, finally.
well they already had an optimization patch for Revolution where they also introduced 8 worms per team.
However, the 8 worms per team was only usable with 2 players. (Due to the technical limit of only 16 worms on the map at a single time)

I assume that's fixed in this version.

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Re: Worms Clan Wars

Post by Akuryou13 » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:25 am

Star and Moon wrote:However, the 8 worms per team was only usable with 2 players. (Due to the technical limit of only 16 worms on the map at a single time)

I assume that's fixed in this version.
hasn't that restriction ALWAYS been in place?

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Re: Worms Clan Wars

Post by Squirminator2k » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:32 am

Not since the WA beta patches, no.
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Re: Worms Clan Wars

Post by Akuryou13 » Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:00 am

Squirminator2k wrote:Not since the WA beta patches, no.
aren't those unofficial?

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Re: Worms Clan Wars

Post by Shadowmoon » Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:15 am

Yay! another 3D/2D game. Making a sequel to a worms game that wasn't anywhere near good! I'll pass.
This Rezzed interview with Bethany shows some gameplay, also the weapon panel, which seems to have improved a lot from Revolution:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keESXqJd-RE

It still has the Rev's crappy physics engine, so I'm not excited.
Same physics engine and oversized crosshairs? wow.

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Re: Worms Clan Wars

Post by Muzer » Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:11 am

Akuryou13 wrote:
Squirminator2k wrote:Not since the WA beta patches, no.
aren't those unofficial?
No, they're officially sanctioned.
With thanks to XxDangerxX and Aku 13 for the Av!

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