Wolverine

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Vader
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Post by Vader » Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:20 pm

How did you get so good at pixel art? I've tried so hard so many times and my images always look like etch-a-sketches done by a blind leper.

Do you literally draw it all pixel by pixel? I just don't understand the concept at all.
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Post by Wolverine » Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:27 am

Um, hey a topic bout me. Nice welcome.

OK, nearly all of my stuff is done pixel by pixel (cept for using the fill tool in areas of empty color). I don't use any fancy tools that do anything automatically like blurry and the auto anti-aliasing stuff that just messes up good work. Do it all manually from lots of practice. Ya just kinda learn after a while about how to do things like give the impression of curves and different shapes even though yer using lil squares. For most of the bigger pieces, I must point out I draw a rough version of them on paper, then scan them in computer and use them as a template to pixel over (which is a technique a lot of commercial companies use, most notably Capcom judging by art shown in books and character design sheets they've done).

Ya know what though. Its 3:21am in the morning and I'm a crap explainer even when I'm wide awake. Right now I'm making a mess of it. So lemme show ya a site run by a friend of mine thats catered to people who wanna start pixelling today (didnt have fancy tutorials in my day)

http://www.spriteart.com/

His names st0ven and his work craps down on mine from a great height. He's made plenty of tutorials, all excellently presented. My main advise using his site though is too make sure you do not become a clone of him. Follow his tutorials if you want but experiment too using the techniques learnt.

There are a couple of good forums Pixel Academy and its slighltly snobbier cousin Pixelerate where you would be able to post work and get advice on each piece by a variety of people including some who actually work in the industry. But they both seem to be down right now. Will post links to them if they come back up.



Oh yeah theres 4 images on my sig that ain't on my site (just realised my avatar aint there either, man I need to redo that whole site) but are on here in full including the monster on the far right of the sig. In case ya wanted a better look.

http://pixeljoint.com/pixels/profile.as ... &sec=icons



right... hopefully someone can make sense of all that crap. I'm heading off to bed now I killed that giant moth that kept smacking me in the head.

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Post by Vader » Wed Jun 22, 2005 12:41 pm

lol to be honest I thought this was a PM not a thread!

Not to worry, I'll have a goosey at those sites and show you what I come up with.

I take it since you hand draw your characters first you can draw well too? I mean, there's some fantastic character design on your site. Well, of the characters I don't recognise I'm assuming you design a few of them at least.

Blah.

I'll be back later with a dodgy looking megaman doing the bump.

SpriteArt has an Undead skin coming soon... sweeeeeeeeeeeeeet
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Post by Wolverine » Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:22 pm

You just made me realise something. My previous version of the site had copyright information about the characters that ain't mine (Wolverine, Spider-Man, ThunderCats, Transformers, Van Helsing and technically the Ferrari should be mentioned too, oh and the 2 Street Fighter RPG sprites on PixelJoint). It didn't occur to me that its missing on the current one. I'll have to remember to add it back in the new version. But yeah except for the characters I just mentioned, all character and vehicle designs are mine.

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Post by Squirminator2k » Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:50 pm

You are ridiculously talented, Wolverine. Why you've stopped doing commisions and Freelance work is beyond me. I've been working on building up my portfolio - I've only done one animated piece and I wasn't happy with it.

Glad to see that you still use DpaintIV AGA, though - just like me.
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Post by Wolverine » Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:04 pm

Well technically I am doing one paid project currently. Since the boss of the company was so intent on getting me to work for him that he pretty much made it impossible to refuse by giving me the rules I wanted (like half payment now, half when finished and so on). But after 3 previous bad experiences (which I'm still paying for, which is so the opposite of what the point of working is) I'm now much more wary about taking on work like that.


And yeah I do occasionally still use DPaint IV AGA just for nostalgias sake though been using it less since getting Pro Motion V5.1 which is basically DPaint for Windows. Everything that was great in DPaint is in it and its more convienent to use.

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Post by Vader » Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:41 pm

What makes these apps so good? Can't Photoshop do everything anyway?
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Post by Wolverine » Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:00 pm

Well for a start I personally feel Photoshop is an evil CPU hogging pain in the ass on this PC. I deleted it long ago when I realised I just wasn't using it. Also I find Photoshop too bloated at times and just not comfortable to use for pixel art. Plus it does not have built in animation functions. You have to use Image Ready I think, which means more bloody CPU/RAM usage if yer trying to switch between the two. Programs like Pro Motion and Graphics Gale are more specialised for sprite and tile work with their better limited palette management, and animation functions such as the light table/onion skinning capability which I find essential for decent sprite animation.

Pro Motion is fast becoming an industry standard for pixel art but I mainly use it cos its based on DPaint so if you've used DPaint you'll feel right at home with it.

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Post by Zeor » Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:11 pm

Holy... CRAP. You're amazing. :shock: It's a real shame that you had to be taken advantage of like that... There's no reason you shouldn't be able to make a living with this kind of talent. I mean, wow.
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Post by Squirminator2k » Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:13 pm

Pro Motion... where might one acquire a copy of this program?

[/posh]
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Post by Wolverine » Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:29 pm

Zero72 wrote:Holy... CRAP. You're amazing. :shock: It's a real shame that you had to be taken advantage of like that... There's no reason you shouldn't be able to make a living with this kind of talent. I mean, wow.
Thanks mate. I appreciate that.
It ain't too easy to make a living from it these days. Its possible but not with the sense of enjoyment and satisfaction I get out of it when I do stuff for myself or friends games. I would have loved to have been doing this professional back when the Amiga was going through its glory days. The 2D industry today is getting even smaller, especially now the PSP and DS are capable of fancy 3D that was thought nearly impossible on a handheld couple years back. Cellphones too are getting more powerful and even some of those are capable of 3D... I've worked with 3D before... and there aint much love in it for me, stuck doing textures and status bars when I wanna be creating characters and backgrounds. Even with 2D games today a lot of companies try to rush ya with yer work instead of let ya take the time to really make it good. Its probably why ya might notice the odd crappy sprite in an otherwise nice looking commercial 2d game. I am looking to go into shareware games just for a bit of cash now and then. Again not enough for a living but still...nice to have some money come in. Can't tell ya the amount of times I've had to live without even bread and milk...

Squirminator2k wrote:Pro Motion... where might one acquire a copy of this program?

[/posh]

http://www.cosmigo.com/promotion/index.php

But certain things like gif support are limited in the demo. I won the full version for my very slight involvement in Legend of Shadow a game by a friend of mine which won the Retro Remakes 2004 contest (I supplied two quick images, despite one of the reviews incorrect claims I sprited the whole game)

Ya might prefer Graphics Gale here
http://www.humanbalance.net/gale/us/

I don't find it as comfortable to use as Pro Motion but they're fairly similar. I think you can use gif support for bout a month before having to pay, and its easier to um... change that but thats up to you and yer morals.

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Post by Vader » Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:36 pm

I guess I'm really not alone in finding 2D games more attractive then?

That's why cel-shading pissing me off. It's trying to be 2D but it's not, it's 3D.

I tell you what, I'll try making a shiny sphere and post THAT here in about 12 hours when my eyes and fingers are bleeding. I just tried one, got annoyed with it and closed MSpaint.

I guess you need a thorough understanding of fine art to do this really. I still wish I had more training in that field. My talents are fading and they're fading fast. *begins to sob*
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Post by Zeor » Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:00 pm

Wolverine wrote:It ain't too easy to make a living from it these days. Its possible but not with the sense of enjoyment and satisfaction I get out of it when I do stuff for myself or friends games. I would have loved to have been doing this professional back when the Amiga was going through its glory days. The 2D industry today is getting even smaller, especially now the PSP and DS are capable of fancy 3D that was thought nearly impossible on a handheld couple years back. Cellphones too are getting more powerful and even some of those are capable of 3D... I've worked with 3D before... and there aint much love in it for me, stuck doing textures and status bars when I wanna be creating characters and backgrounds. Even with 2D games today a lot of companies try to rush ya with yer work instead of let ya take the time to really make it good. Its probably why ya might notice the odd crappy sprite in an otherwise nice looking commercial 2d game. I am looking to go into shareware games just for a bit of cash now and then. Again not enough for a living but still...nice to have some money come in. Can't tell ya the amount of times I've had to live without even bread and milk...
That's kind of tragic. I knew good 2D animation was a quickly dying art, but...
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Post by Vader » Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:06 pm

So, I made this. Anti-aliasing is a bitch when you're working on a dodgy monitor with ambiguous contrast and dark greys showing as blood red.

Someone let me know if this doesn't suck. Or more seriously, if it's any good... for a first piece :P

edit: i forgot to attach the damn image :roll:
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Post by Wolverine » Thu Jun 23, 2005 2:34 am

Looks fine to me. Cept on that right one, you've got dark blue pixels in the middle of the curves which give it a sharp lil corner. Ya don't need those there at all, and removing them would make the circle seem smoother.

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Post by Vader » Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:48 am

Nice tip...
I'm struggling to even draw decent looking worm art in my own style at the minute with this monitor... If I get too miffed with it I might ask you to be my eyes for the next month until i get a new one.

Not only are the colours screwed, but so is the aspect ratio so I'm having to trust maths and stuff that my circles are circles.

edit: TFT monitors and art & design. Discuss.
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Post by Alex » Thu Jun 23, 2005 1:08 pm

Vader wrote:edit: TFT monitors and art & design. Discuss.
Pay for a very very high quality one or you'll never get a good image. I'm getting a CRT designed for graphical artists because I want a really crisp image with true colours. 22", costing me £420 or so. A TFT would be much more expensive. Of course, that's 22". But yeah, unless it's very high quality you'll not be up to professional industry standard.


(For non-professional art use whatever though).
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Post by Vader » Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:43 am

I thought TFT was cheaper than CRT these days - esp for say, 19"
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Post by Alex » Fri Jul 01, 2005 1:21 pm

Vader wrote:I thought TFT was cheaper than CRT these days - esp for say, 19"
A shit quality TFT compared to a decent TFT? Yes. But an actually good quality TFT that's suitable for professional image editing? No way, those things cost fuckloads.
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Post by Run » Fri Jul 01, 2005 6:02 pm

Vader wrote:Someone let me know if this doesn't suck. Or more seriously, if it's any good... for a first piece :P
I like the stars! Planet's good too, but the stars reminded me of the teleport from Worms Reinforcements.
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